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Author Topic: small maps or big maps?  (Read 619 times)
(CDG)2110
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« on: June 03, 2010, 06:21:33 PM »

small maps provide a strong, chaotic firefight that chokes the player into a rage of fun and adridilen. these maps can look very detailed and could be used by any class if done right Grin. smaller maps also allow the game to show its spawn protector. trust me, you fc2 only guys, do not take the protector as a joke. when you play mw2, there isnt a protector, which leads to some bullshiz later on in the gameplay. so these maps run on common sense and action.basically...
small maps are chaotic and fun.

larger masp provide a tactical, more explorive firefight that chokes the player into realism and to watch out from all of his corners. these maps are mostly little detailed ad are usually ar16, saws, or snipers, but if done right, they could go into most of the catagories( exept shotgun Cry) the spawn protector is almost useless and sometimes runnning to the fight can be annoying and boring. but the realism, teamwork, and the multiple paths that large maps open up usually show the bright side of the layout. basically... large maps provide tactical thinking and more exploration.

post which types of maps you make, what is your ideas on the subject, and which type do you like. ill post some examples, regarding the subject
thanks, fc302
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(CDG)2110
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 06:29:43 PM »

i like to map edit smaller maps because i think that i map better maps if they are smaller. i like smaller maps, but i would play a map upto a 8 grid map.

here was a larger map of mine...

URL=http://img153.imageshack.us/i/icon0.png/][/URL]

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here is a smaller map that i used to have too...


By farcryking302 at 2010-06-03
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(CDG) Pounded_by_slave
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 08:08:14 PM »

I like big maps more & I like to build them big too, but I don't know why
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[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 09:40:35 PM »

I like medium maps. Cheesy Tongue

Most of jumodu's map are fairly middle of the road in size. When I think small, I think UT3 type small. Some of the maps have only a couple rooms. Good for a duel, but really fun with a full 16 players.

A large map doesn't have to leave out close range and it doesn't have to be so long that it's boring to find the fight.
The map can be large but with short lines of sight. Or a rather small map can have lines of sight that span nearly the entire map.

Maps shouldn't be classified into just small and large. And I don't really prefer any particular size as long as the layout is designed well. It also depends on the moods I'm in, if I'm too lazy and would rather just camp, I'll usually go for larger, snipe-favoring maps. Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 09:46:36 PM »

I agree with Negrumir.
I like any map that has a good layout that is good for all classes.

I started making maps that were mainly large maps, but once I got used to map making I started making them for all classes and testing them to make sure the worked with all classes.

Now I prefer to make smaller maps that are still good for all classes.   
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(CDG)2110
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 11:02:24 PM »

cool. well i was just seeing that most of the time, larger maps have less action than smaller maps. im with the whole chaotic, fast paced action map types. i mean throw in my map with a full lobby and a 50 kill score, you might find your self near the end in about 3min? 4min maby.

true though, that a map doesnt have a specific size. but a 4 grid map is small though, no? so anything bigger than that should be large.

also yes, the layout does matter alot. Distress is large but it has tons of action. and i have seen campy, slow small maps in the past
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[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 11:54:50 PM »

It also has a lot to do with the mode you play on.

Because TDM or DM have no location-based objectives and you're perfectly allowed to sit in one spot and shoot from there means that people will end up not going where you (the map creator) intended them to. it also means they may never move or move very little and in large maps this may result in lots of hiding and subsequently lots of difficulty in finding them; thus, slow gameplay.

However, in mode like CTD and Uprising, you're forced to go to certain points if you want to win. Also, you can pretty much guarantee that someone will eventually come to your diamond station/ uprising point. This funnels the action into specific areas and results in less hide-and-seek.  The map "Synthetic Eden" which is a co-op map between me and Mastikore is a huge map, much larger than I usually make. In modes like DM or TDM it may be pretty slow even with a full room. However CTD (which I usually don't like) was a blast. We had a match that was to five points and it raged on with constant action for more than an hour. I racked up around 60 kills and most everyone had at least 30 kills. While that may not appeal to some, the large number of ways across meant that every respawn I was trying something different to get to the enemy's diamond. Also, for a map that large, there was almost no sniping at all. This is probably due to sniper rifles being bad at close quarters and game mode like CTD or Uprising force you into a close quarters environment.

[rant] I do truly wish Uprising was like CoD's domination because as it is, it's all based on if your captain is good or not. Sucky captain = lose, no matter if the entire rest of the team is good or not. And how hard is it for people to learn anyway? You never see people on CoD grab a bomb and then camp in a corner or wander around the map for 5 minutes... [/rant]

For maps, it's all about how to get the player to play where you want them to without making a stupid bottleneck. The second part is not wanting them to sit in one spot, effortlessly racking up a Dynasty Warriors like kill count with an AS50. Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 06:16:01 AM »

i struggle on this point badly whit my maps Tongue
and i still don't know the spawn logic...i am looking in 2 this at the moment and noticed that on the best maps there are 64 spawn points on each side ex Pacific coast from colaboy.
i like the massive action pact maps so i usually build it like that...i don`t like the gameplay in fc so i go for eyecandy instead and its just fun 2 build something in the editor and the result is heavy spawn killing and bad gameplay that overshadows the eyecandy...

@neg, the bit over the line of site is something i will look in 2 and should be really usefull for future maps...

is my stadium map just missing ways to get around or the lack of spawn points? 8 each side at the moment...
still lot to learn for me Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 07:59:12 AM »

I think I forced the action pretty well in CDG: Coliseum and still kept a few different paths to get around.
From the bases you can go 2 ways, up and toward the enemy.  But all paths force you in the middle area if you plan on moving around.  And being that the diamond stations are above the team where they start, you have to go out in the open to get to them and back.
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(CDG)jumodu94
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 08:58:11 AM »

hi  Cheesy
I always try to make maps of medium size, but it keeps telling me they are small. Angry
I have no preference in size, this depends on the number of players and the game mode. if the maps is well made ,its always fun  Cheesy
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[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 11:16:06 AM »

lol Jumodu, you can change what size it says the map is as well as they recommended number of players in the "Map Properties menu in the editor. (Just in case you didn't know, I might have read your comment the wrong way.)

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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 05:11:22 PM »

I'm with yoz - I also have trouble understanding spawn logic and therefore design maps to look good/accurate (since a lot of my maps are replicas of movies/real buildings etc) rather than optimized for gameplay.
I'm so envious of you guys who understand spawn positioning, CDG Coliseum plays superbly, and although I haven't yet played other modes, I'm sure they play equally well.

I have no preference in the size of the maps I play, but I have found that the more experience I gain in building maps, the smaller they get. I think it's more challenging to design a small, accurate, detailed map than large, sprawling maps. Although I have played some very nice, large maps too, so that theory may well be completely flawed lol  Grin
Neg, that co-op map from you and Mastikore 'Synthetic Eden' sounds great, I'm going to look for that one  - Mastikores work has always impressed me, and of course yours too Neg Wink

My earlier maps were huge compared to the ones I design today. I think most of us went through this learning curve when we first used the editor - I couldn't be the only one who was obsessed with terrain/collections and little else in the early days  Grin  it is the easiest bit of the editor and works best on a large scale - very tricky to get smooth terrain on a small map imo.

Neg is right - the mode is everything, I wish we could differentiate between CTD/Uprising/TDM spawns, that way we could tailor the gameplay more efficiently for each mode rather than have to compromise with using all the same spawns for all team modes.




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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 05:20:02 PM »

Great points there bongo.
Mode specific spawns would be nice.

I think the editor is only tricky when you first use it because the instinct is to use the whole plane for the map design.  Once you realize how large this size map actually is, you learn to make smaller ones.
The entire plane is 64 grid squares.  Entirely too large for any map that isn't a story mode map.

The first 3 maps I made didn't stay on the servers after I tested them.  They were way too big.
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[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 08:18:26 PM »

One of these days, I ought to type out all I know about spawn logic... I know some that might help people but it's not super amazing. If some of our more knowledgeable members chip in it would certainly be cool.  Max seems to always have good spawns so he probably knows a bunch. ColaBoy goes with the (very good) approach by placing tons of spawns. The more there are, the more possible places you'll end up, and the less likely an enemy will be watching.

I think in Deathmatch, it just spawns you a set distance away. Usually as far away from enemies as possible.

In Team games it also tries to spawn you away from enemies but... It'll try and spawn you closer to your teams base marker. So if you put the base marker in the enemies base, you'll probably end up spawning nearer their base than if it was at your base.

I might be wrong, but I think it tries to spawn you close to the majority of your team mates as well. This is just a theory though.
Diamond stations, and Uprising points don't seem to have any effect on your spawning location.

Also note that absolutely none of these rules apply at the start of the match. (everyone's first spawn) If the team spawns overlap (like on Max's Turnpike Terror) you may end up spawning right next to an enemy. After the initial spawns for everyone, it'll spawn you more grouped with your team based on the rules I posted above.

That's about all I know. I just try to keep my spawns spread out enough so that you can't see more than a few from any given point.

It's also not a good idea to have spawns right near ammo crates or explosives, And especially not in any really good vantage points. (like a church tower) Players should at least have to move some distance before they pitch a tent and start camping. Tongue
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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 09:19:10 PM »

That's good advice Neg, and with that in mind I'm now re-addressing my spawns, I've just realised that there are several in high up spots and another couple near ammo crates.

I guess I generally stick to the 'principle more is better' - like ColaBoy, and I also try not to provide 'line of sight' when I'm placing spawns. Other than that it's one big crap-shoot  Grin
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