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Author Topic: Map Design/Layout  (Read 1258 times)
(CDG) psnMetallicamaniac
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« on: July 23, 2010, 12:45:58 PM »

Hey
This topic is made for sharing and discussing map ideas. It can be everything from a spesific structure, to map layouts. And let us know if you have any hints about making everything easier in the editor Smiley

My first hint is about the layout of your maps. Before you start, try to imagine what you want it to look like, then grab a pencil and some paper, and draw a picture of the layout.
I do this sometimes, and it helps a lot. To start off, just draw the grids, and then start to form the map the way you want the layout to look like.

I might post some pictures of my layouts, would be cool if some of you would do that too Grin
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 01:42:49 PM »

A hard part of map making is making sure the scale is right.  When I first started to make maps a normal building would be huge.  But all you really need is the height of the square wood plank that is in the fishing building section for the floors to be above the characters head. 
And 1 grid square is a lot bigger than it looks in the map maker.  When making maps 6 grids or larger, you should definitely have vehicles in the map.
The one thing I don't like about FC2 is the extremely low height fall damage.  So I always try to put things to hop down to or bounce off of when dropping of the edge of higher objects.
And being that sniper is my favorite weapon in the game, I also try to make sure that there aren't too many straight lines of sight across the map.
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[CDG] bongobreak
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 11:19:26 PM »

My tip is for moving objects very accurately along grid lines - ie. to line the camera up exactly along a grid line.

First, position the camera a short distance off the ground and pointing downwards a little bit, and line it up roughly horizontal.

As you then move the camera left or right (with the right joystick), you'll notice a sort of grid line interference that moves along the grid lines. The closer to horizontal you get, the easier these 'interference' lines are to see.

The aim is to gently move the camera left or right until these 'interference' lines disappear into the grid line (leaving you with a solid grid line). When you have done this, the camera is perfectly lined up with a grid line and you can then move objects accurately along the flat plane providing you don't move the camera left or right with the right joystick.
All other movements will not affect the horizontal position of the camera.

I have made a much simplified and enlarged illustration - my apologies for the lack of artistic quality - I tried to take some film, but I can't video in HD (it appears much clearer in HD) and my photographs had too much screen noise to be of any use.

--------
You will see this effect - a pixel lined interference along the grid line when it is not horizontal



--------

As you slowly move the camera left or right (with the right joystick) you will see the pixel lines appear to get longer, and 'move' along the length of the grid line as the camera gets close to horizontal.



--------

Until eventually you will see no pixel lines, when the camera is exactly horizontal. The grid line now appears solid.





I find this little trick very useful indeed when you need to accurately move objects to line up with other objects perfectly, or if you need to copy a platform3 along a straight line for example.
It does require a very gentle movement of the right joystick, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.

Hope this is helpful Smiley

« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 11:24:47 PM by [CDG] bongobreak » Logged

(CDG)2110
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 11:57:39 PM »

lol what tv are you using? my grids never pixlate Tongue
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[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2010, 12:49:25 AM »

Well they won't pixelate as much as those pics show but I see what you mean.
I've occasionally used that technique, but a lot of my maps are on odd angles or such. It's also a good way to get one items lined up for another technique that I've only used once or twice.

For objects that won't snap together if you want easy duplicating without having to line up each one. Just use bongo's idea to line up one object (like platform 3) and place a colonial fence piece at the end of it. Make sure that the fence is inside of it and that the end of the fence is about flush with the end of the platform. (Maybe just a little inside of it for  no possibility of gaps. Of course, both the fence and platform need to be lined up so the ends are facing the same way. Unless you want to snap the platform (or other objects) at another direction. Just make the end of the fence piece at the side of the object that you'll be snapping with.  Once done, just copy the object with the fence inside, turn Auto-snap back on (you'll want atuo snap objects and snap to rotation on but not the snap with terrain) and rotate your object so the duplicate fence piece snaps to the original. Once you're all done, you can delete the fence pieces.  I did this technique on my 'Shroomopolis map but didn't line it up quite right so things got crooked at long distances. I put a fence piece at the end of each platform 3 and snapped to my hearts content. (or at least until the roads were done.)

FC302, maybe your TV has some smoothing on or you turned the sharpness down 'cause I've got an HD TV and I can see the pixelation. (or maybe your eyesight sucks)
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[CDG] bongobreak
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2010, 01:01:36 AM »

lol what tv are you using? my grids never pixlate Tongue

lol I'm pretty sure it's not the TV that shows this side effect, and I should have said that these 'interference' lines are very thin (one pixel wide....ish), and they show more clearly on an HD TV.

I'm guessing it's a visual digital artifact of some sort - I don't pretend to know about digital rendering stuff, or anything else that goes on inside a PS3 in order that we can see a picture  Grin

@ Neg: lol, yeah, sorry, those pics are very large scale and yep, I've used that technique too. It's great for the trusty platform3. I use the grid line method a lot to line up colonial pieces when creating varying sized circles using the copy/pivot method, so I can't use the snap tool in that instance. But both techniques are very handy for all sorts of things.
Btw, I build everything on right angles, and then pivot everything to odd angles - I do enjoy right angles Grin and I assume you Neg....are odd  Tongue Grin (I'm kidding of course lol)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 01:18:16 AM by [CDG] bongobreak » Logged

[CDG] Negrumir
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 01:24:15 AM »

lol what tv are you using? my grids never pixlate Tongue

lol I'm pretty sure it's not the TV that shows this side effect, and I should have said that these 'interference' lines are very thin (one pixel wide....ish), and they show more clearly on an HD TV.

I'm guessing it's a visual digital artifact of some sort - I don't pretend to know about digital rendering stuff, or anything else that goes on inside a PS3 in order that we can see a picture  Grin

@ Neg: lol, those pics are very large scale and yep, I've used that technique too. It's great for the trusty platform3. I use the grid line method a lot to line up colonial pieces when creating varying sized circles using the copy/pivot method, so I can't use the snap tool in that instance. But both techniques are very handy for all sorts of things.
Btw, I build everything on right angles, and then pivot everything to odd angles - I do enjoy right angles Grin and I assume you Neg....are odd  Tongue Grin (I'm kidding of course lol)

It's FC2's fault. It just has poor anti-aliasing to begin with. That just means it doesn't automatically smooth rough edges like that. Were anti-aliasing on it would smooth out the edges and you'd never see that "stair-step" effect with the pixels.

As for that last comment... Gonna call me odd eh? Mr. I can't even find the dang crosshair option and probably would never have even found the aim assist were it not for FarCryKing302's message and I'll bet at this point you can't even read the words anymore  so I guess it's safe to say this was a complete waste of time on my part... lol
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[CDG] bongobreak
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 01:37:35 AM »

LMAO  Grin

Yep, you got me there Neg lol  Grin ... and don't worry about the size of the text  Wink , I've re-sized it in the following quote Tongue

As for that last comment... Gonna call me odd eh? Mr. I can't even find the dang crosshair option and probably would never have even found the aim assist were it not for FarCryKing302's message and I'll bet at this point you can't even read the words anymore so I guess it's safe to say this was a complete waste of time on my part... lol
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(CDG) psnMetallicamaniac
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2010, 06:21:48 PM »

i'm wondering if anyone knows what is the best object to use for fake windows?? i'm making a city of skyscrapers and stuff, and the best things i've found are creates lol. the colonial barred windows disappear when you move away, so on the tall structures they wan't be visible at all x)

i also used a combination of Fort-08 and the window(at my Take A Life - building, get it? metlife in NYC, Getalife in GTA, Takealife in FC2 Tongue Grin) but as i was saying, the window disappears from a distance ;(

map is called City of Evil, and will be finnished during the weekend, or next week Smiley
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(CDG)CaptainDEEZ
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2010, 07:49:56 PM »

If you can't go inside the building, I'd use the large concrete blocks and cross them so the borders would make gray squares.
If you can go in the buildings, I'd use the poles and cross them to look like window frames.
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(CDG) psnMetallicamaniac
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2010, 08:46:39 PM »

okey, thanks for the tip mate Smiley
BTW, as i'm making this map, i can't help to wonder, what if the source limit was about 100k or more, then we would be able to make some sick cities Grin can't wait for Crysis 2 C: the cryengine 3 is going to kick some serrious ass in map making Grin sure gonna make some awesome maps there Smiley and i recently found out that i made it in to 2nd grade media and communication, (directly translated lol) all we do at school is to use programs such as photoshop, flash and all the other adobe programs, and surfing the internet all day lol, so i might be able to make a map, and make a tutorial or something about mapmaking as a schoolproject Grin that would've been cool Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2010, 09:00:09 PM »

Try to make the city on 1/5th of the current scale.
It only takes 1 (wood quay from the fishing building section) to make a wall tall enough to go above the players head.  If you make your floors on that scale, it's hard to make any building too large.  Maybe too complicated, but not too large.
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(CDG) maxpower
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2010, 02:46:42 AM »

Nice tips guys, I will just mention a few things...

When starting a map:
- Always check the direction of the sun's path. It's better to have the sun's path move sideways over the map, instead of coming from behind one of the bases. If you don't plan properly you could end up with shadows on one base while the other base is well lit...especially if you choose an early morning time as default.

- I always turn the grid on, then place the large gas tank at the very center of the map for a reference point. Then I make a rough outline of the planned playable zone using the 'set height' terrain tool. Next I use random buildings, roads, rocks, etc to do a quick mock up of my planned layout. This whole process takes about 10 minutes, but it can be a real timesaver by pointing out possible flaws in your plan very early on. You get a real feel for the size, scale, and the alignment required for the grid lines to keep resources balanced throughout the map.

Trees/bushes:
- Always use the collection system to place these items on a map, unless you have no other choice. If you don't want the grass included, just shrink the cursor size down and delete all the grass out afterwards. If it didn't place trees/bushes where you needed them, use another collection slot for the exact same style to get a different 'spray'. Usually it only takes two slots to get what you need, and the savings in resources in worth it. I'm sure most of you do this already but thought it was worth a mention...

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[CDG] bongobreak
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2010, 06:48:17 AM »

Great tips max - I never gave it much thought as to the direction of the suns path across the sky - but I will now Wink

Regarding your last tip, might I add Negs great tip on collections - if you need trees in certain places and want to avoid the expensive tree brush, then he suggests re-selecting the same collection in the same slot, which re-randomizies the positions. It doesn't take many tries to get the trees positioned just right.
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(CDG)OSAMA-STYLEZ
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2010, 08:20:48 AM »

you guys probly already do it like this but if not heres a tip lol

When your making a map always start using occlusions as you build the map. that way you dont have to put occlusions everywhere
when your finished. wich is alot harder cuz u cant really see exactly where u put them. well thats what i do when i build a map i put occlusions as i build the map.


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