Editor VS Editor. Let the war begin.

[EMP]

The FC2 editor was probably the one I worked with most of all time. So as everyone knows what the FC2 editor is capable of, i.e. placing Africa-styled objects of many kinds, editing the terrain and some other parameters of the map, I don't think it makes sense to write a summary on it. Basically, it would allow to make many kinds of maps, but lacks some objects and features. Also, it starts lagging pretty fast. It is slightly too focused on the Africa environment, so even the most futuristic structure will still have the africa touch to it. My personal score: 7/10, consisting of the following points:
Usability: 10/10. It is very easy to handle.
Effectiveness: 8/10. It does allow relatively fast and effective editing, and has some helpful features. Starts lagging way too fast, on consoles.
Variety: 5/10. There are many types of objects, yet they're in the same style, which makes it hard to create maps that are not supposed to be Africa. I said hard, but it's not impossible.
Fun factor: 6/10. Creating rough structures is quite fun on this, but impatient mappers will quickly get too excited to work on details.


Halo Forge. I have worked roughly 1 hour with it and had enough. It's my personal opinion, so please don't bash my a$$ for it. Having said that I'm still a noob on it. However my personal opinion is that this editor is one big imperfection. Let's start with the good news: You got man cannons, lights, tons of vehicles and other objects (of which you can change the physics etc.), many powerups and even map filters which can change the entire look of your map. All these tools in one big world called "Forge" allow you to create futuristic-styled maps. Sounds good to ya? Well here's the bad news:
1. You can place only 2 lights. On top of that, they're just fat balls that glow pretty weakly. Grids also have the same limitation; you can place 2 of them while they're not even 2D.
2. Editing on this is a pain in the arse. You have to navigate through an array of menus to change the object's coordinates. Extremely slow rotation speed. There's no copy/paste.
3. The editing camera is an entity which can die.
4. You cannot change the terrain.
5. You cannot go into the water.
6. The object all look the same, there's a severe lack of variety. There are no natural objects.
7. The map budget is gone in no time.
Usability: 6/10. Not too hard to handle, but the controls are quite.... inconvenient I think.
Effectiveness: 3/10. Editing is slow. Has some nice features like changing several properties of objects, but lacks other features that would put some more flow into the editing. Like copy/paste.
Variety: 2/10. Objects all look the same, the world is not changeable. No detail objects, no natural objects.
Fun factor: 4/10. Good for some messing around with friends. Provides some fun at the beginning, especially co-op editing. Gets boring quickly.
Overall score: 4/10.


Doom Builder. This one is a little complicated and requires quite a bunch of time to get into it. But it's capable of many things. The editing takes place in a 2D view of the map from above. You draw the map with lines and vertex points and create so-called "sectors". Every part of the map is a sector, no matter if it's a lamp on the rooftop, a stair, or a whole room. You can alter the sectors by changing their height, brightness, texture or other properties like movement, color or physics. Some stuff requires a little scripting. Aside from that you can also create triggers, doors or death traps. You can place different objects like decoration, monsters or weapons. There's very little flow in terms of editing. Mapping takes a huge amount of time. Plus a big disadvantage: There are no actual "floors" you can create. It is still possible to create multi-floor maps, but they would be fake. But if you get into it, you can make awesome stuff. The possibilities are not endless, but huge.
Usability: 5/10. Difficult for beginners, but overall not too bad.
Effectiveness: 7/10. Slow editing here, but many possibilities.
Variety: 8/10. It allows you to create almost any kind of map.
Fun factor: 6/10. It's fun to mess around with the result once your done.
Overall score: 6.5/10


Cube 2 Editor. Whenever you hear Cube 2, you can actually associate it with endlessness, because this editor has almost no limits. The editing works like this: You got a cube system which practically consists of big cubes which you can divide into many smaller cubes. Every cube can be changed in it's parameter. No matter whether it's the bowing angle of a corner, the texture, the material/clipping or the colour. Having said that, there are tons of materials you can use. Some of them are glass, water, lava, deathzone or noclip. Commands allow you to change nearly every property of the map, like e.g. the skybox, the clouds, scrolling textures, ambient light, fog colour, fog amount, watercolour, waterfog, texture colour and so on. There's basically nothing you cannot do. There are tons of entities you can place. To list some of them: Jumppads, teleports, lights, weapons, elevators/platforms, sounds, environment maps and particles. Lights are one sort of the major important objects in this list. With lights, you can alter the ambience of your map. When you place a light entity you can change the radius of it and mix your own colour with the RGB system. There are no limits for light entities. You can even place sounds. Either, you can use sounds that are already in the game, or use your own. Environment maps are objects that allow you to reflect the geometry on textures. Particles are most commonly used for decoration purposes. You can create rain, fire, water, laser, smoke and some other types of particles like lens flares. If you don't want to create stuff with Cubes, you can also pick from a ton of preset models, all looking differently, or import your own models. You can also import your own textures, of course. It's very easy to get into the editing. You can learn the basic stuff within an hour, without even using tutorials. As you get into it, the editing is fast, effective and fun at the same time. For some advanced editing, like particle editing and other stuff, you'll need to learn some commands, as said before. But that's no difficult thing. The commands are not a hard scripting language to learn. For AI paths, you can drop so-called waypoints while you run. Yet, there's even MORE advanced stuff, like scripting triggers, missions and creating interactive objects. Those require CubeScript knowledge. However note that you can only use triggers for SP levels, so scripting will be unneccessary for all the MP stuff. On top of all that, the game supports co-op editing. The player limit depends on the host. Some editing functions are blocked during MP, like for example the creation of heightmaps or instant scroll texture, but those functions are no essential editing functions. While editing, you can change your floatspeed to get from one place to another place quickly.
There are some bad things about the editor, of course. Some of them: Slightly bad spawn system. No elevators and platforms in MP maps, no monsters in MP maps. But these are some minor flaws. Cube 2 is completely FREE.
Usability: 10/10. Definitely THE easiest editor I have learned so far.
Effectiveness: 10/10. Fast editing, endless possibilities.
Variety: 10/10. Got an idea? Build it. Nothing will stand in your way. You can make ancient, futuristic, desert, water, space, natural/forest, horror and many other kinds of maps.
Fun factor: 10/10. Instant map testing, cooperative editing, easy but effective editing. These make for some great fun.
Overall score: 10/10. Most awesome editor ever.


Now as for LBP, I have heard only good stuff of it. Creating your own music with an integrated music program, using your own video files and textures sounds really fun. Changing map properties almost like in Cube 2 makes this editor a serious competition. Yet, it's 2D so the chances are low that it will surpass Cube's editor. But the integration of it into the communities will make it quite fun I guess. From what I heard of it I'd almost tend to give it a 10/10 of a score. But I cannot really judge, as I haven't played it.


THUG's level editor had nothing to do with MP, yet it was a thing that I considered worth mentioning here. I played THUG last time when I was about 13, so the memories might partially be gone. But from what I recall, this editor wasn't that bad. You could create your own missions, create interactive characters, including dialogs, and most important: You could build a huge skate world. Either a city, or a skatepark. You had plenty of objects to place, even vehicles. That and playing one's own story missions would make for some great fun. Those who are more into MP would get bored quickly, yet for those who like both SP and creativity, this would provide some fun. Even though it's very old.
Usability: 8/10. Easy editing.
Effectiveness: 6/10. There was quite a limitation, but you could choose from plenty of objects.
Variety: 6/10. You could choose from several settings, and the objects all looked different.
Fun factor: 7/10. Definitely worth playing. You could instantly switch from mapping mode to test mode if I recall correctly, and play your map.
Overall score: 7/10. Worth checking for oldschool gamers.


TrackMania Sunrise was in my opinion the best and the craziest racing game so far. Last time I played it about 2 years ago, and I really liked it. I didn't really work a lot with the track editor so I'm not able to give a full review on it, but it didn't handle bad if I recall correctly. Possible score: 6-7/10.

I haven't played Modnation Racers so I'll skip it. Instead I'll give a little review on the Sandbox editor, even though I have barely used it. The sandbox editor offers lots of possibilities, but is very hard to handle, and tends to lag and crash. It requires a very powerful computer. I managed to create an island map once, with a few houses and some water. But that was it, I didn't really go deeper with it because I was too lazy. If Sandbox 3 comes with Crysis 2, I might get into it sometime. I've read of things like creating advanced AI navigation, cutscenes and other awesome stuff. Now I actually don't know much about it, but will give a possible score for it.
Usability: 2/10. Too hard to handle, but it's almost a SDK, not even a map editor.
Effectiveness: 10/10. I've heard of all the awesome stuff you can make with it, therefore it deserves a 10.
Variety: 9/10. The possibilities seem to be very huge here.
Fun factor: 8/10. I can imagine it's quite fun once you get the hang of it all, but not before that.
Overall score: 7/10 (possibly).

I haven't played FCIP, and neither GT5, so I can't judge there at all, but I heard the GT5 editor sucks... anyway...

Now it's your turn. Write some reviews or give your opinion on why the editor you chose should be the best one. :-)

[[CDG] Negrumir]

If someone votes for GT5's "editor" they've obviously got their head shoved up their ass.

I think FCIP's was pretty close to FC2's except it had totally different objects and the game played much differently.

Let's not forget Timesplitter's editor. It's been around since a little after the launch of the PS2. A really easy editor to use, but you're limited quite a lot due to it being nothing more than placing rooms and such on a grid.

I'll do a big ole' review a bit later on.

[Woodwayne]

I used a Doom map editor back when the world was dooming. If it is the same one (doom builder) it was the best i have ever seen. You could create atmospheric lighting anywhere within the map that u were building to give it great lighting effects. Like between a series of pillars or in the top corner of a high ceiling room etc.
The editor was simple to use and was capable of making some pretty big maps for the game.
I wish that feature was on the FC2 map editor. This would make creating night maps a whole lot more interesting and enjoyable to play.

Well thats my 2 cents worth.
 
Actually there was another map editor on a ps1 game called Tenchu; Stealth Assassins. It was basic but was fun and had some depth to it.
That was a great game. I wish They would remake it for the PS3. adapted for multiplayer as it was just a 1 player game.

 

[(CDG)CaptainDEEZ]

FC2 hands down.
More versatility than any other editor I've used.

Although I've only used fc2, forge, and timesplitters.  And some old pc games that aren't even worth playing any more.

[EMP]

Now that really surprises me. Didn't think anyone would vote for FC2.

I mean everyone is entitled to his opinion, that's for sure. But FC2's editor is definitely not superior to LBP2's editor or Doombuilder (well maybe in terms of being easier to handle...), needless to talk about the Cube editor.

I'm curious about which editor is actually going to 'win'. So far three entirely different views on what editor is the best.

Also, even after playing LBP2 which is quite awesome, I won't change my opinion because you cannot even compare it to Cube's editor. Plus, the story would kinda interfere with editing. I mean that you have to collect story items to unlock new stuff in the editor, which is slightly ridiculous I think.

[(CDG)yoz303303]

Cube2-4/5 for the editor and 3/5 for the gameplay. 7
I never have much fun when i play fps on the PC or laptop. Cube2 editor would win for me if it had the gameplay to back it up.

Farcry2-3.5/5 for the editor and 4.5/5 for the gameplay. 8
The editor is easy to use and that`s also the drawback. Gameplay is very good for me and it suits my playstyle in fps and the diversity of the maps is great, race, parcour, paraglider, fps, etc.


I am thinking of picking up LBP2 when i get the chance. Looks like a fun concept.

[[CDG] Negrumir]

I mean that you have to collect story items to unlock new stuff in the editor, which is slightly ridiculous I think.

This. This makes it probably the only game I'd want to buy one of those "unlock everything right now" packs that EA loves to sell so much.
But I still would rather earn all the stuff instead of buying it. I do like that all the stuff from LBP 1 gets imported if you unlocked it. This means I have two games worth of stuff to fool around with. (plus a couple things from DLC)

I'm still kinda debating on which editor. It's between Cube 2's and LBP2's.
Since LBP2 also has vehicles and things with fully customizable controls, that gives it something Cube doesn't do. Still, Cube 2 is in full 3D and has the possibility for importing your own models and such. Very hard to judge as both editors are on totally different systems and styles.

[EMP]

that gives it something Cube doesn't do.

You're right and not right at the same time. Cube's editor is capable of creating controllable, movable instances. You can turn any model into an elevator, or a platform. With CubeScript, you can write the controls for those instances. You don't necessarily need Cubescript, but without it the objects will just move back and forth until they hit an obstacle, and then move back.

On the other hand of course, there's two things that ruin this a bit: 1. There are no triggers, no elevators and no platforms in MP mode. So only for campaign levels.  And 2. Cubescript is quite hard to learn.
So that makes it kind of worse than the stuff from LBP. 1:0 for LBP.

Then again, Cube has stuff LBP doesn't have: Material systems that allow you to place water and other materials everywhere you want, while LBP has a water level system. A fat "WIN" point for Cube. Scrolling textures with ease and reflection mapping. RGB mixers for lights and particle emitters. Win for Cube. Okay, LBP has object emitters, which is again a point for LBP, but there are no particles except smoke. Tie. Sound handling in LBP is easier (win for LBP), but no own sound importing. In Cube you can import your own sounds, textures and models. But you cannot send your own stuff to friends via game, while in LBP you can take screenshots of the map and use them as objects. Tie. All in all, that makes for a 1:1.

I have to say LBP's editor is heavy, VERY heavy competition for Cube. I don't know for myself where it will end up, but my guess is that LBP's editor is still a tiny bit behind Cube's editor, because it's 2D. But the score difference wouldn't be large.

Let's not forget that Cube is completely free of charge, while LBP is 50 or 60$.

Cube2-4/5 for the editor and 3/5 for the gameplay. 7
I never have much fun when i play fps on the PC or laptop. Cube2 editor would win for me if it had the gameplay to back it up.

I didn't really intend to ask about the full game package with the poll, only about the editor, but okay as we're at it now...   I like Cube's gameplay. It has it's own style but it's not necessarily bad, aside from the dodgy spawn system. The campaign levels in the game are fun to play, my guess is that nobody in here played them.  It's quite fun to proceed through the corridors and kill those monsters with a decent amount of guns. Then there's DMSP, which allows you to play against various monsters on any map you want, amazing bot matches with different bot skills, and there's a hand full of modes (more than FC2 has), like Hold, Protect, CTF, Reverse CTF, DM/TDM, Insta DM/TDM and a couple of others I can't remember right now.

The game speed is pretty high and therefore not everyone would like it, but for those who do not, there are DMSP modes, campaign missions and botmatches for which you can change the gamespeed. For online fans who don't like fast gameplay there's coop editing and messing around with friends.

[[CDG] Negrumir]

Let's not forget that Cube is completely free of charge, while LBP is 50 or 60$.

An excellent weight in Cube's favor right here. Not to mention it doesn't require a mega awesome PC to run is great to.

But sadly...

Cube 2 doesn't have a Cupcake Hurricane or Burpitron 9000. 

As I said in chat earlier, I'd vote Sandbox right off if it weren't so damn hard to learn. I figured out the essentials of all the other editors in about an hour or two. It took me about the same length of time digging through tutorials to find out how to place some friggin' terrain in Sandbox. Also, the Cryengine 3 and Sandbox are supposedly free. Crysis 2 isn't. (duh) Not sure how you'll get to playing your creations with Cryengine 3, same way as UDK I assume. (Not that I figured out how to do that either)

[Woodwayne]

It's a tough one. i mean who amongst us has tried all the editors listed?
I have never seen or used the Cube 2 editor but its getting a lot of support.
How many of you had used the DOOM Builder? Probably not many due to the how old the game is now and how young you guys probably are in comparison to the when DOOM was in its prime.

Surely this poll must be judged on
1. How easy the editor is to learn and use.
2. How much fun it is to build maps with.
3. Design depth and editorial content.

Im suprised that there are only 3 votes so far.... come on people.

[menace-76]

I've used a lot of editors, sandbox, cube2, fc2, timesplitters, lpb, doom, quake , duke3d, half-life

We're not as young as you may think

Voted for Doombuilder, but ment to vote for cube.

Cube and Doombuilder are very close for different reasons.

[[CDG] Negrumir]

I've used a lot of editors, sandbox, cube2, fc2, timesplitters, lpb, doom, quake , duke3d, half-life

We're not as young as you may think

Young as I may be, I have used a bunch of the editors listed (as well as some others)
FC2, Forge, LBP, Sandbox, Cube 2, THUG, Doombuilder, Modination Racers, GT5 (lol) Timesplitters...
I didn't get super deep into Sandbox, though I've also fooled around with the UDK and some other, more obscure editors of various types.

Sandbox and Trackmania are the only ones I really don't have enough knowledge of to give a proper vote. As I've said before, I've seen a ton of stuff Sandbox can do, I've also seen how complex the editor is. It takes a ton of getting used to, even if you're only using a small portion of its capabilities.

I think I'm going to give LBP a vote based on how impressive it is right out of the box. It gets a couple extra points for being able to have all that functionality using only a controller. I've seen top down shooters, racers, side scrolling platformers, lightgun-style shooters, as well as minigames like air hockey. I've also seen an old "3D" click-to-move-ahead-one-square RPGs, it even came complete with a map and multiple floors. The editor can do cooperative levels, versus levels, even levels designated as a movie only. Not many editors out there have the functionality for that many different genres of games, let alone the possibilities in each.

[EMP]

i mean who amongst us has tried all the editors listed?

I didn't play all, but most of them (see review list above).

How many of you had used the DOOM Builder? Probably not many due to the how old the game is now and how young you guys probably are in comparison to the when DOOM was in its prime.

I started playing Doom 2 when I was 5 years old, and I still play it today regardless of how old it is. And you might want to know there are still millions of people playing Doom, it's still very popular. DoomBuilder came out way later than Doom itself anyway if I recall correctly.

Doom is a good example for awesome gameplay without awesome graphics. Crysis is exactly either way, awesome graphics but awful gameplay. And guess what? I would choose Doom.

Cube and Doombuilder are very close for different reasons.

No. Cube's editor, if you ask me, is a (million²)³ times better than Doombuilder and it's not even remotely similar to Doombuilder.

Wow, what the...? 6 votes and 2 of them go to FC2's editor. I don't understand that. lol Not that I'd have something against it, everyone is entitled to his own view.

[[CDG] Negrumir]

Wow, what the...? 6 votes and 2 of them go to FC2's editor. I don't understand that. lol Not that I'd have something against it, everyone is entitled to his own view.

This kinda goes back to what woodwayne was talking about.
Deez hasn't used LBP or sandbox or cube 2 or doombuilder... just as an example.
The majority of the people who come to the site, came here because of FC2.

You can hardly expect them not to vote for it.

[Woodwayne]

If I am being honest ..... I initially wanted to vote for FC2. Probably because every now and then, I still get ideas for new maps and ways to rework and improve on current maps.


But Im still backing DOOM Builder to win it.